4 ways to watch/listen/read:

1) Listen to the audio here (click on the triangle play button):

2) Download the mp3 file here
3) Read the transcript (below the video)
4) Watch the video:

Transcript:

Tim – MemberCon.com: Now, you have a forum, which is really busy. I’m looking at it now. Are only members allowed to comment on the forum?

Don McAllister: No. No. Anyone can join. You have to become a member of the forum, but you don’t have to be a ScreenCastsOnline member to access the forum. I did initially set up a members’ only sort of area on the forum, but to be honest I’ve not really leveraged that very much. I don’t use it very much. I did in the early days. I sort of had conversations with the members in that particular forum, but I tend not to do much in there now. And to be honest, the forum itself is pretty much self-managing, which is a good thing. I did find a couple of people in the early days who were really, keen and frequently on the forum and they’ve done moderators. So in effect it self-runs, although it’s set up.

I mean I’ll drop in. I always go in every week and start a new thread to do with the show so that people can actually talk around, what I’ve discussed on that week’s show. I’m making extra information and, they can give comments about the show. So, that’s something that I regularly update as part of my workflow publishing the show. But everything else, the chit chat forums and their requests for help – it will be too difficult for me to actually manage that on a day-to-day basis. So, the moderators. And really the community of people on there is super. most of them are very knowledgeable. Everyone’s very helpful and it’s very friendly. There’s no spamming. There’s no aggression in the forums. it’s really what I feel to be a really safe place for a new Mac user to go to because they will be helped out. It’s a really valuable resource.

Tim – MemberCon.com: I like the idea. That’s interesting. Most people that start a membership site, they put the forum behind the wall as well. You’ve decided not to do that and in a way I can see that being a really nice marketing tool. You’ve got the members talking about how great the last video was. Maybe it’s enticed people to join up and at the same time, you haven’t had to worry about trying to get that momentum going on the forum?

Don McAllister: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, very much so. I mean the only thing I might – in retrospect what might be better would be to actually put the discussion on the show page itself. on the main site rather than over on the forum. And I think I need to use testimonials a bit more. Because, I get tons of really good feedback on the forum for every show and that sort of – it’s definitely not behind the wall, you know? Anyone can see that, but they have to go to the forum to see it. When I get time to redesign the site, I might actually bring that across and actually put that on the main page for each show.

Tim – MemberCon.com: Now, you’ve been creating content for awhile. You’ve got a ton of HD video already up there. Do you find yourself struggling at times to find out what the next show’s going to be or has it always been easy?

Don McAllister: It’s fairly easy because the Mac market, it’s a rapidly evolving market. There’s tons of software available. Apple themselves, bring updates out. What I’ve tried to do, it always has to be something that I’m interested in. I never do a tutorial on a bad product. If it’s a bad product, I just won’t cover it. So, again that goes into the recommendation engine type of concept as well. So, it always has to be something that I’m interested in or more importantly something I think that, the viewers would be interested in. And if I can sort of expose something that people don’t realize or is, hidden away the more the better. So, I like to sort of bring the best out in a particular application set in its context and that gives people value. They’re not just, learning the nuts and bolts. They can see how it works and where it would work and where it might fit in with what they do.

Yeah, I mean there are weeks when I sort of scratch my head when I’ve got, a choice of things that I want to do and I’m not quite sure which one to do next. But there’s a ton of stuff. And also, I get loads of suggestions from people asking me to do stuff. So I’ve got a list, as long as my arm of applications that people want me to cover. So, if ever I do run out, I’ve always got that to fall back on.

Tim – MemberCon.com: And video is really time intensive. Have you been able to systematize it a little bit to make it easier?

Don McAllister: Not really. It’s still probably, the most intensive part of the workflow. I mean that each show now is never normally less than 30 minutes. Sometimes it goes up to 45 minutes. And, it’s sort of compressed into the latter half of the week. So I’ll try and sort of do the recording on a Wednesday and try and do the editing on a Thursday and then do all the postproduction stuff on Friday to get it published.

I mean obviously, I’m becoming faster as I get more experience and I’m now faster at editing. And there are templates I use and there are a set of tools within the editing suite that I use now that I’m quite familiar with. So, the process is speeding up just because of the experience I’m gaining.

And there’s a lot of automation as it regards to the encoding side of it, which is another big part of video. once you’ve corrected your video, you’ve then got to do the encoding and the transcoding and then the uploading. So, again there is some automation there whereby I’ll take a master file and drop it on an icon and that will generate the four different versions of the show that I need and I can just, let that go ahead. So, yes and no. It’s certainly not fully automated but there are levels of automation in there that speed the process up.

And investments in the kits as well. I took the decision early on. And again, one of the reasons for going full time is that, the show pays for my Mac addition. So it’s easy for me to justify buying the latest and greatest Mac gear and, certain specialized stuff that I need. special video, encoding cards and stuff and that is all tax deductible and it’s part of a legitimate business expense. So, that’s good as well.

Tim – MemberCon.com: Do you use iMovie still to do the video editing?

Don McAllister: No. No. No. I’ve moved on to – well I actually use a couple of applications. Now, I use one called ScreenFlow, which is the thing I use to capture. Now ScreenFlow itself does have an editability and that’s sort of optimized for a screen capture. You know that’s a total reason for being glued. It’s a screen capture and an editing tool. But because I’ve been doing this for awhile I actually use Final Cut Pro and, I’m familiar Final Cut Pro and there are some aspects of ScreenFlow which are limiting for what I normally do. So, I capture in ScreenFlow and then actually I do most of the well all of the editing in Final Cut Pro and use Motion as well for graphics and titles and stuff. So, yeah they’re the current main tools that I use.

Tim – MemberCon.com: How about affiliates? I know you’ve got a tab up there for them? Are they a big proportion, a big portion of your memberships or have you not kind of gone down that road?

Don McAllister: Not really. Well, it was something that I thought I’d sort of put forward. But it’s certainly not a big deal as far as I’m concerned, you know? I get the occasional sale come in from the affiliates. I see the clicks coming through, etc. But no it hasn’t been a significant part of the business to be honest, although it’s nice to have it. It’s good that people, enjoy the show and support the show that they would want to become affiliates. So in that respect it’s good. But it certainly doesn’t generate a ton of revenue to be honest.

Tim – MemberCon.com: You’ve mentioned maybe even off recording that you do a lot of marketing just by word mouth? People hear about it and they hear about how good the content is. Are there outside of word of mouth or do you upload portions of the premium videos to YouTube? What kinds of things are you doing to try and get some exposure?

Don McAllister: Well, to be honest I sort of haven’t pushed very hard in sort of traditional advertising. I’ve obtained the occasional sale on the site now and again from an affiliate. But most of it is word of mouth. And the good thing with it being a Mac podcast is there is a large Mac podcast community and, that’s sort of cross promotion. Well, not so much cross promotion to be honest because I don’t really promote other Mac podcasts on ScreenCastsOnline, although I do participate in a few Mac podcasts other than ScreenCastsOnline. So, the Mac Jewelry, I do the Mac Roundtable as well and these are also like pundit type, panelist type shows whereby we discuss what’s going on in the Mac world. And, that’s been a really great way of getting, the brand out, the ScreenCastsOnline and myself as well.

Now, it’s only really in the past six months when I’ve started to take it more seriously sort of promoting sort of myself. Because it was always that, I hid behind the camera and I didn’t really appear on screen. The screen casts were just the desk top. But it’s only really been the last six months when I’ve come from behind the camera. So, now I’ve set up a YouTube channel and I do sort of like video comments pieces to camera. So you can actually see me in the studio and I’ll do one or two sort of video comments every week where I just either talk about the case, or I talk about the show or I talk about what’s going on within the Mac world.

And on there as well, I’ve set up playlists for hints and tips for the Mac so these small two or three-minute clips. You know just a little small hidden thought tip on what’s going on to the Mac. I’ve put the tray list for the member shows as well and I do like a 90-second to 2-minute trailer just describing what that particular member show is all about. I put them up there as well so people can see them. So, a little of that, but it hasn’t been within the past six months that I’ve actually started to look at that seriously.

Tim – MemberCon.com: One of the things you touched on was doing comments about other things outside of just the business. And I noticed in your Twitter account, you do a ton of tweets and you’ve kind of combined your individual persona with the business and do talk about both. That’s been a struggle for me. I’m not sure whether or not my website should have its own Twitter account and I personally should have a Twitter account but you seem to have blended it pretty well.

Don McAllister: Yeah. I mean I have got a separate Twitter account, I’ve got a ScreenCastsOnline Facebook fan page, but I still can’t get scripts with Facebook. It still does nothing for me. I hate going on to the site and I really don’t. I don’t know Facebook really is more for personal use than business use to be honest. But I sort of followed the trend that, you should have a Facebook presence so I have a Facebook fan page.

What I tend to do is I have a Twitter business account. Sort of an actually online Twitter account and I’ve linked that to the Facebook page. So whenever a new show comes out I’ll go to Facebook and post the details of the show and that will then post across to Twitter on the ScreenCastsOnline account, which has relatively few followers. I think 500 or 600 followers something like that.

But my main account, my Don McAllister account on Twitter, yeah, you know? I mean most days it just sits on the corner on my screen. I monitor it. I will tweet away about sort of what I’m doing that day about nothing too personal to be honest. It’s maybe all to do with Mac. there’s a great bunch of people on there that are all Mac heads and we converse on Twitter. And then I will, throw in the occasional business related one, but never blatantly. I’ll post about my daily blog posts ’cause again I have a blog, TheMacScreeCastGuy.com and I try and do at least one blog post a day. I can’t always keep to that to be honest. But if I do produce a blog post I’ll post that in the Twitter stream. So, I would think the ratio is probably, even up to like 30, useful normal conversational tweets to like one sort of business related tweet really. The ratio is very low for, trying to promote myself or the business. It’s maybe all – I’m just a normal Twitter user that tweets away about the daily activities.

Tim – MemberCon.com: Nice. I notice you have some free tutorials on your site as well. Have you come up with a good ratio of free stuff I’m going to put out to promote the premium stuff versus…?

Don McAllister: Yeah.

Tim – MemberCon.com: too much and having too much free?

Don McAllister: Yeah. Yeah. Well, it’s again and that’s something that sort of evolved over time. I mean initially it was completely free. I felt bad taking away free content and replacing it with paid content. So, in the early days, the very first take was – it probably goes back to the $25 for six months. That was only for one member show every month. So it was one member show and three free shows. The member show that was restricted to members plus it was in HD so I sort of removed the HD side from the free shows. And I also introduced sort of chapter markings as well to make the shows easier to navigate for members.

And then I went from, the one member show to three free shows a month to alternate weeks. So, one week would be a member show the next week will be a free show. And that lasted probably for the past two or three years. Up until when I sort of took the decision, not longer after blog world actually was sort, blog world I was sort of thinking about it then and I decided that as from January I was going to completely flip it and do one free show a month to three member shows and also increase the price. That’s when I put the price up to the $57 for three months. So, at the moment it’s one member show to three free shows.

Again no negative feedback at all from the people who subscribe to the free shows. What I did do though is before I flipped it was to do a crazy 50% off offer for November. So that anybody who’d been with me for awhile yet was still sitting on the fence, you know I sort of said, “January we’re moving. We’re going to three member shows and one free show plus the price is going up. But, if you’re on the free feed and you want to join know now, you can get in and we’ll do a 50% offer.” And, that did get a significant number of people in that month. all the people who probably would never have paid the full price even before I put the price up and changed it jumped on board at that point. So I had quite a big spike in the membership numbers for November to get those sort of stragglers on board before I put the price up.

Tim – MemberCon.com: So, used it as a sales tool. I like that idea. Now, I know if it was me because, I have this attention disorder I’m sure that after about two or three years I’m itching to try and replicate this somewhere else. You’ve stayed really focused on this, which has always been a challenge for me and just to grow these numbers. Have you considered trying to duplicate this success on maybe a different membership site?

Don McAllister: Not really because it’s so time consuming. it really does take well all of the working weekend and longer. I mean I always say that when I left my IT job really it was sort of like retiring because I was stopping that to do what I enjoyed. But I’ve actually worked hardest since I left my full-time job than I ever had. Because it’s not just the ScreenCastsOnline, there are other podcasts that I take part in. There’s the whole running the membership site, doing the websites, all the ancillary stuff. I mean my wife has come on board now and she does a lot of the admin stuff now to help out in that respect. But there are always things to do. my time is pretty much occupied. There’s no real free space for me to branch out, which in some respect is a bad thing. But I want to focus on the show and deliver value in it.

I think when you are delivering a service like this on the net, you have to be consistent. attention to detail is paramount. You have to deliver a good product and, that’s the way people remain loyal to you. So, I can’t really see me freeing myself to do too much outside of what I’m doing now.

Again the other think process which is a time consumer that I still do myself, I suppose I could look at, getting an intern in to take some of that off my hands. But again, I see the editing process possibly, the creative process. Because, it’s never one take. There are always things that I either fluff or I need to retake. And, there’s a judgment joining the editing process when, of the best way, which take to keep and how to tie it together. So that people don’t notice there’s been a fluff. And, I enjoy that bit quite a lot. So, I might sort of try and free myself off for other projects, but certainly not at the minute.

Tim – MemberCon.com: Alright well listeners and viewers of this, check out Don’s website. It’s ScreenCastsOneline.com. We’ll put the link right here in the transcripts as well on the top above the video. Don thanks very much for taking the time to talk to us today and more success for you going forward here.

Don McAllister: Thanks a lot a Tim. It’s been good to talk to you.

Don McAllister owns a successful membership site that started as a humble podcast back in 2005. He built his membership entirely from scratch and eventually quit his full-time job to focus on the membership site as a business, ScreenCastsOnline.com.

Don has a tremendous reputation within the Mac community and in this 2-part interview he talks about how he built his membership site and continues to attract a loyal audience for his weekly Mac tutorial videos. Don breaks all the “rules” when it comes to membership sites, including not auto-renewing his memberships. But he has a specific reason for not doing so and it works for him.

4 ways to watch/listen/read:

1) Listen to the audio here (click on the triangle play button):

2) Download the mp3 file here
3) Read the transcript (below the video)
4) Watch the video:

Transcript:

Tim – Membercon.com: Hello everybody. Thanks for joining me at MemberCon.com for another interview with a membership site owner. We’re going to be speaking with Don McAllister. His website is ScreenCastsOnline.com. I’ve known Don for a few years now ever since back when I owned the podcast in New Media Expo and Don was one of the early adaptor podcasters that I learned about early on probably back in 2005 or so. So, we’re going to talk to Don about how he turned his site into a membership site and some recent tips and tricks that he’s learned about attracting new members. So, Don thanks very much for joining me on the show today.

Don McAllister: No problem Tim. Nice to speak to you as always.

Tim – Membercon.com: Well, when did you first start your podcast?

Don McAllister: Well, the podcast actually started back in the summer of 2005 so it was quite an early podcast. It’s one of the first podcasts really that came out. And when I started it, it was, a hobby podcast basically. I was generating content and I’m just throwing it out there for free probably for three or four months. So, it was very much a passion of mine, you know? It’s all to do with the Mac. ScreenCastsOnline is a video tutorial site and each week I would create a video tutorial using a screen capture technology. So these will be screen casts, hence the word ScreenCastsOnline. And I basically take people through, using the Mac, using the latest Mac software, and using the operating system. Really just sort of helping people through, how to get the most out of the Mac. And, it was something I really enjoyed doing.

Tim – Membercon.com: And so your target audience is basically anybody with an Apple product or basically a Mac computer?

Don McAllister: Yeah. Yeah. Really, speaking, although it’s quite interesting in that I do get, Windows users as well who are interested to find out what all the fuss is about the Mac. I mean, I was sort of caught away as well at the time because, the Mac sort of gained in popularity significantly over the last three or four years especially over here in the UK and in Europe. So, I still get lots of people who aren’t Mac users, but still are interested in possibly switching across to the Mac and really just want to see what it’s all about. And they just can catch some of the free content and start to understand what it is that makes the Mac so attractive and why it draws so many people in and people enjoy using the Mac so much.

Tim – Membercon.com: So, a lot of our listeners are probably in the position you were in back in 2005. You’ve got free content you’re creating. You realized there’s an audience for this. At what point did you decide, “I can monetize this. I can actually turn this into a business?”

Don McAllister: Yeah. Well, it was a gradual process. I did sort of have one eureka moment. But really the thing that seeded the idea was the fact that people started to make suggestions about sending donations in because obviously, I was working full time. I was working quite a few hours during the weekends putting the show together because it did take quite a bit of assets to put content together. a video isn’t easy at the best of times and sort of creating sort of like – well, at the time they run about 20 minutes, 25-minute tutorials. It was taking a lot of my time. So, people sort of did start to get a lot of benefit from the content and they sort of realized that I was putting much effort in. And I did start to get queries, some people saying, “Look, can we send you a donation to help out with your costs, etc?”

And I was sort of encouraged by that. It wasn’t something that I initiated. It was very much initiated by the audience. And so I did set up some, donations that people could donate some cash. And that sort of started me off thinking along the lines of well, if people are willing to pay donations, perhaps if I start to either create more content or deliver extra value in some way that there might be a way of formalizing the arrangement and actually starting up sort of like a membership system.

I didn’t really want to go down the advertising route. I sort of approached people to do advertising and at the time, podcasts were very much an unknown thing. And I didn’t feel at that time that advertising was going to – it wouldn’t really generate anything significant. But, the membership sign up thing I thought well, if I can produce quality content and produce it regularly, getting that revenue would help me buy new equipment, etc. So, after probably ’cause I did it free for about four months and I’d started to take donations and then it was probably another three months or so before I sort of realized, well perhaps premium content was the way to go. And I sort of set up the membership system at that point.

Tim – Membercon.com: Did you have a full-time job while you had started this?

Don McAllister: Pretty much so. Yeah. Yeah. It’s a bit vague now ’cause it’s like four or five years ago now. But basically I was still working full time. But when I decided to go full time with the membership, I decided to drop the full-time job. Because there was no way I could do everything I wanted to do and keep a full-time job at the same time. So, it was a bit of a leap of faith. There was some questioning there, there was a block of a month or two, but I sort of made the decision I wanted to go with the membership scheme to go full time really and make a proper go of it.

Tim – Membercon.com: Uh-hum. Which is great. It was obviously a good decision and you’re full time at this now correct?

Don McAllister: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it worked really well. I mean it took awhile to ramp up. You know the first month or two was pretty scary because, these sorts of things they don’t take off overnight. It’s a very gradual process to build the numbers up. But I sort of tried to look at multiple revenue streams rather than just relying on the membership in case the membership figures didn’t go that well.

One of the eureka moments I had was to actually look at not just advertising, but sponsorship. So, to get a couple of vendors interested in me producing tutorials for them to put out on the show. See initially I couldn’t really get sponsorship because I was an unknown force. people really didn’t know me in the Mac community and they didn’t know my work. So, I went with affiliate arrangements initially. So, I’d do a show about a particular product and then I get a discount code for the viewers so that they could see the tutorial. they could understand the product. And at the end of that if they were still interested, they could then go ahead and purchase it at a discount plus I get some commission.

So by having both the membership and that sort of affiliate deals in the early days that, sort of cushioned me through the period whereby I could start ramping up. I also did sort of not so much consultancy, but production work for the companies as a paid job. So, there were two or three different ways I could earn some revenue. And that sort of eased me into the process of going down the membership route.

Tim – Membercon.com: And I like that because when we think of membership sites, we often think that that’s it. You’ve actually combined sponsorship and membership to create a bigger piece of the pie.

Don McAllister: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very much so. And it was very much, a safety net really at the early days. I meant it’s at the point now where the membership numbers are significant and if I wanted to well, I can now decide whether or not I want to do sponsorship or if I want to do. I sort of stopped doing commissioned work to be honest. Because it was so labor intensive. It helped me through the early days, but now the membership has grown so that I haven’t really got the need. It’s great to get extra revenue in obviously if I want to, but I tend to push the work away now and just focus on sort of delivering the cold product, which is, the ScreenCastsOnline, which is the thing that I have memberships site built around.

Tim – Membercon.com: We’re you concerned at all when you went from the free to the paid model? Did you get some pushback? I think that’s a big concern for people who are considering that jump.

Don McAllister: Well, I was really concerned about it. I mean it was a leap of faith and a leap into the unknown because I really didn’t know how people would actually respond to that. To be honest with you though I think the fact that I sort of was giving up the day job as well sort of validated the decision in some people’s eyes. Because they realized that I was taking the risk in going full time. So, I got tons of support from people saying that, “We’re behind you. Great. you go for it.” I think literally I’ve had two e-mails from people who said, “Oh, you sold and podcast should be free,” which surprised me really. I didn’t get any more of a pushback than that, you know?

Obviously, there probably were people who just sort of didn’t, subscribe and didn’t make it known that they were displeased, but the actually pushback? No it’s very limited. Let’s say two e-mails at the most of people just expressing, their feelings that they thought all content should be free which obviously is bonkers, you know?

Tim – Membercon.com: Yeah. Absolute rubbish. Sure. To use an English term.

Don McAllister: Yeah.

Tim – Membercon.com: Well, how did you decide on pricing early on and is it the same as it is now? Because back then, you don’t have anything to really compare it to, to decide.

Don McAllister: Yeah. That’s right. Well, I sort of took the approach. I mean it’s something that I struggled with for ages, you know? It’s so hard to know how to price something, as you say, especially if there’s nothing to base it on. So, I sort of took the decision early on to try and price it low, probably too low in retrospect. To price it low with the idea of, well the lower the price was the more people would take up the membership and then, I’d make the money upon numbers. So, I wanted a ridiculously low level of I think the original one was $25 for six months. Which, when I think about it now that’s like six months’ worth of half hour video tutorials at $25 dollars. It’s really low.

Tim – Membercon.com: Yeah.

Don McAllister: So over time I’ve sort of pushed that, but it’s low now. I mean what’s happened over time is obviously as I built up this back catalogue tutorials one of the propositions now when someone joins as a member is they get immediate access to the back catalogue. Well, that’s over 200 shows now. So, that in itself has a value. So, the initial joining fee is still only $57, but that’s for three months membership. But that includes access to the back catalogue.

And going forward, I’ve sort of kept the renewal late low because once people have become members again I didn’t want to start sort of messing things around by sort of increasing the charges. People are already joined. So, that’s still relatively cheap. That still is $25 for six months. But that’s only for existing members. There’s this premium of $57 you have to pay to join up. But again, people still says that’s too cheap. Yeah. I’ll probably push that up gradually over time. But it’s very difficult to strike a balance to know, where the sweet spot is really for people.

Tim – Membercon.com: That’s something I didn’t know that you get access to everything. I mean we, and just from my own experience, had a little trouble with that finding that people may either (a) get overwhelmed with all that content or just join for the initial period and then grab everything and then leave. Have you found any of that?

Don McAllister: Yeah. It’s difficult to track to be honest. I’m sure that does happen. Yeah I’m sure it happens, but, the rate of people dropping off is relatively low. So, once people tend to join – there are people who just want to, get the back catalogue and that’s it and then they will probably leave.

Because it’s quite a contemporary show and I never really record it more than a week or two weeks in advance, it’s always new stuff and it sort of transformed as well as it went into a bit of a recommendation engine as well. So the call membership sort of follow the show both for up-to-date information on the latest software as it comes out, and they can keep abreast with what’s happening and get up to speed with things quickly. But it’s also I get lots of feedbacks from people saying well, “I haven’t got time really to sit down and check it out all the new software as it comes out. So, what I tend to do now is wait for you to cover it and then I can assess it from watching a half hour video and then decide if it’s for me or not.”

Tim – Membercon.com: Interesting.

Don McAllister: So, it’s various things. It’s training but it’s also a recommendation engine. And it also, helps people with their busy lives so they don’t have to worry about checking everything out. They can just wait for me to do it and sort of come in on the back of that.

Tim – Membercon.com: And then after that three months of their initial membership it looks like it doesn’t automatically renew. They probably get an e-mail to renew?

Don McAllister: Yeah. I terribly went with the option of not allowing recurring. I did start initially with, when people join they could sign up as either a nonrecurring membership or a recurring membership. But I found that, even though it was plain as day that, this is what they were signing up for, I’d still get feedback from people saying, “You’ve just taken money out of my PayPal account. What for?” Because they haven’t realized that they’d signed up for a recurring membership the very first time. So, I decided really to stop doing that and again sort of turn it around into a bit of a sales point in the, when you join as member it’s not an opt-in, you have to opt-in after the initial membership period to start renewing. I think that sort of gives people if you buy something at $57 you sort of always like to think, “Well that’s going to be $57 for every six months or whatever, and do I really want to do that?” But if you know that you’re just paying for the initial payment period and then you have to opt in after that to remain a member, I just saw that as the easiest way to manage for me. And I think it probably is probably more attractive to people as well.

Tim – Membercon.com: Yeah. And you offer a seven-day money back guarantee? Do you find that that puts people over the edge?

Don McAllister: Difficult to say. It has been taken up a couple of times, but again that’s based on people’s misconception. They might have thought there were more shows about a certain product that were available and when they looked at the catalogue they realized that it’s much more of a mixture of tutorials. That tends to be, the main reason why people might call them. But again, I’ll be surprised if over the four years, I’ve had more than a dozen, refunds I’ve had to do, within the seven-day guarantee no risk thing. So the take up on that is very, very low.

More in Part 2…